Nitrates

[fritz]

Frozen cubes are notorious for containing all manner of nasty funk you don't want in your water. I put my cube into a jar to thaw out then pour the contents into a brine shrimp net. I further wash the food out some more and then place it into my tank.
Uneaten nori can also funktify your water. Also look around for a "nitrate factory" in your tank. You may have a spot where junk has collected and is just rotting away.

The cure for a nitrate problem starts with finding the source.

 

[meschaefer]

It has been awhile since I actively looked into such things, but it may also be that your sand bed is not deep enough.

But first guess would be your food as the source of nitrates.

 

[deelucky]

well though its still my biggest fight and a mystery to me,i guess there has to be some way without chemicals to bring done my nitrates,ill start by feeding less and go from there.i just dont understand why after doing a WC they stay at the same level:arg: .

 

[fritz]

Frozen cubes are notorious for containing all manner of nasty funk you don't want in your water. I put my cube into a jar to thaw out then pour the contents into a brine shrimp net. I further wash the food out some more and then place it into my tank.
Uneaten nori can also funktify your water. Also look around for a "nitrate factory" in your tank. You may have a spot where junk has collected and is just rotting away.

The cure for a nitrate problem starts with finding the source.

-Ahem-

 

[deelucky]

lol is this directed at me fritz?.i did see your post but i havent fed frozens in quite some time.i do thaw and rinse and i even mush up the frozen formula 2 and rinse.the only thing i have been feeding as of late,due to not being able to do water change is pellets.ok let me ask the loose stuff that blows off the sand (detritius) when i move around my pumps is this my cause? and if it is does higher flow fix this? i believe i have pretty decnt flow.

 

[Deanos]

i just dont understand why after doing a WC they stay at the same level:arg: .

Water Changes in Reef Aquaria

Now you understand :tub: 10% is obviously not large enough to overcome the nitrates you're putting in.

 

[ellebelle]

You could do small water changes every day until the nitrates are where youw ant them to be (once you are up and around again).

 

[deelucky]

Now you understand :tub: 10% is obviously not large enough to overcome the nitrates you're putting in.

ok so i guess its going to take up to 50% then being that 20% doesnt do nothing either.let me ask you what is your trates before WC,how much do you change and reading after?

 

[Deanos]

what is your trates before WC,how much do you change and reading after?

• I stopped testing once my hair algae disappeared :theyareon
• 20% every 2 weeks
• Probably less than before, but who's checking

 

[deelucky]

ok check it i use to have a 29 gal high in nitrates and lots of HA after transfering the rock and after the cycle of the 90 it all disappeared and has thus far not returned or seened any sign of it coming back.well ill do a big change when i get better and call it a rap.thnx everyone for pointing out and suggesting.D

 

[Wes]

The problem is you have to harvest that macro algae often. If it dies or is eaten it all goes right back into your water.

amen, removing my refugium was the best thing i ever did during my battle w/ HA. If you get your water clean enough the macro dies off releasing all kinds of crap back in the water...Then the macro starts growing again, along with other nuissance algae. A vicious cycle.

All my HA died off within a week after refugium removal.

 

[ShaunW]

Nitrate alone is not the biggest problem but when it is present with high phosphate. Phosphate limitation should be a priority for all reef keepers.

If P is limited then, nitrate can be assimilated to the amino acids.

Glutamine synthetase (GS) makes the amino acid glutamine from glutamate and ammonia.

Glutamine + α-ketoglutarate → glutamate + glutamate.

Glutamate + oxaloacetate → α-ketoglutarate + aspartate.

From here biochemically the cell can go towards many places. Many organisms perform these biochemical reactions within a reef tank.

 

[fritz]

Glutamine synthetase (GS) makes the amino acid glutamine from glutamate and ammonia.

Glutamine + α-ketoglutarate → glutamate + glutamate.

Glutamate + oxaloacetate → α-ketoglutarate + aspartate.

Isn't that what I just said? :biglaugh:

 

[loismustdie]

Nitrate alone is not the biggest problem but when it is present with high phosphate. Phosphate limitation should be a priority for all reef keepers.

I agree with this statement. I also found that if you keep your PO4 low, NO3 seems to go along with it. My PO4 is low and I actively fought to get it low and keep it there. I use no resins for NO3, yet they show undetectable on NO3 kits. Limiting PO4 helps limit NO3.
Since this is Rich's thread and he seemed game to throw related stuff out there... here goes:
Someone mentioned their fight with NO3 and his DSB. Adding sand to a tank is only a small part of DSB methodology. There is a full blown technique behind it. If you do not follow that technique, you can't expect a sand bed to do the work for you.
Fuges... I still don't get it. A few members, myself being one of them, had better results in our tanks within days after removing our refugiums. We've shown pics to prove this, yet I have seen very few tanks with fuges that are actually nice and more and more people seem to want to get a smaller skimmer and get fuges. I equate it to people believing everything they hear, but nothing they see. People give far too much credit to a little bit of algae for nutrient removal. But hey, if people insist on plumbing a toilet bowl into their tanks, I'm not going to stop them.

 

[jhale]

hey I have a toilet bowl in my tank!

my toilet bowl is about 20 gallon of water that the returns dump into.
it has 7" of sand at the bottom, and a mass of cheato that grows nice and big. this was an experimental thing i tried to help keep down the No3.
I can't tell you how much of a difference it's making. I can't detect No3 in my tank, I was thinking of getting the hanna No3 meter to double check.
The only way I could really test my TB would be to take it off line and empty it. something I just don't want to deal with.
for the record my water changes could be better. I do what I can to limit and reduce the Po4 in the tank also. I agree if your on top of Po4 then No3 won't be a problem.

 

[loismustdie]

We've shown pics to prove this, yet I have seen very few tanks with fuges that are actually nice

got pics?
Aren't you doing ultralith?
In other threads I have said, and will stand by that fact, that a properly set up fuge is beneficial. You (I would expect) have it properly set up.

 

[Deanos]

I can't detect No3 in my tank, I was thinking of getting the hanna No3 meter to double check.

:scratch: Didn't you recently cook most of your rock, dump a ton of bio-load, changed all the water and restocked lightly with smaller fish? Wouldn't all that play a larger role in the undetectable nitrates than a few month old refugium?

 

[KathyC]

got pics?
Aren't you doing ultralith?
In other threads I have said, and will stand by that fact, that a properly set up fuge is beneficial. You (I would expect) have it properly set up.

Chris I've seen you mention this point before ...what do you believe constitutes a properly set up fuge ? Thx!

 

[loismustdie]

Kathy:
For a fuge using algae to be successful at removing nutrients to a noticeable level and effecting low pH at night, it needs to be:
1)At a bare minimum, 1/3 the size of the main a display with a very modest bioload.
2)Good enough flow that detritus cannot settle between macros and on the bottom but low enough flow to allow algae to anchor(culerpa) or maintain it's form and not be released into pumps (cheato) and blow sand/mud all over the place.
3)Pruned regularly and completely removed from the system. (feeding it to your tangs puts the crap right back in your tank)
4)Additional supplements added for the algae to grow (cheato need iron)
5)Exceptional skimming.

Successful tanks that I have seen using refugiums are rare. I have only seen 2 in person. Both were over 3/4 the size of the main display and both used far more than the recommended rating for skimming. 1 had a bioload so low that I swear this guy was looking to never, ever change water. The other had a much, much heavier bioload, but used much more skimming.

I have never seen a tank that 90% or Manhattan Reefers would consider a "good" tank using those miracle mud, HOB systems. Never.

Mike (slamajama) is doing his right for the room he has available. He's not trying to control nutrients. He's not trying to balance pH at night (overrated problem which a good skimmer can correct to acceptable levels). He wants a better pod population for his wrasses. He's going with a section of his sump with no substrate. Just some LR and high flow. Ambient light from his main display will be a sufficient food source for algae. No cheato or culerpa. Film algae is fine. The stuff we scrape off the front glass.
It's not what I believe. I don't make this stuff up. I'm not smart enough. It is what I have seen. 1/3 is far too generous.

 

[jackson6745]

IME a fuge is helpful in lowering nitrates but your phosphate will still remain high.