hydrogen sulfate discussion

NYPDFrogman

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cali_reef said:
Frank, IMO it is the other way around, hydrogen sulfate leach is directly related to the so called DSB. Our DSB are not deep enough so the hydrogen sulfate is coming back up once the little sand beds are filled with it.:approve:
poor choice of diction on my part I do agree thats what I was trying to convey
 

NYPDFrogman

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I dont know if thats " right" herman but pretty much my thinking. I can control or avoid the "crash" with a seperate fuge that I can isolate from the main tank.

I'm not sure there is a right or wrong way here I think the issue is Hydrogen Sulfate is a natural occuring substance that needs to be monitored and addressed, the more we know about it the more suceessful we'll be at managing it. :scratchch
 

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best way to remote the sandbed and go BB in main tank IMO. herman carbon attaches many molecules, but i dont think active carbon is enough to remove sulfate since sulface axions and combines together with a oxygen molecule once they hit air, i think the dissolved oxygen causes the H2s to unbind and reattaches itself to a O, therefore creating a solid which is pretty heavy. i think that explains the dark stuff on top of the sand and the color changing sand from white to brown. IMO best if the breeding ground was accessable and changeable from time to time with new sand.

Great thread people, more advance threads to come. Reason why i started this was lately i didnt wanna chat on MR about fresh meat, or some fresh meat's personal life. hehhe. This hobby revolves around the most complex ecobuffer system there is, i think our knowledge and ways of minipulating it does alot.
 

herman

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This thread put me back to the drawingboard of the 92g. Better now than after water is in the tank right!!!

Its very nice to have a thread evry now and than that really "sweats" your brain. Thanks guys! :approve:
 

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hermangareis said:
This thread put me back to the drawingboard of the 92g. Better now than after water is in the tank right!!!

Its very nice to have a thread evry now and than that really "sweats" your brain. Thanks guys! :approve:

what are you thinking of changing? adding a remote sandbed?
 

NYPDFrogman

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one of the cool things about this thread...
unlike other forums :rolleyes:
there were no egos, attitudes just useful, interesting input :thanks:
great thread keep em comming!

I enjoy the social part of MR and appreciate the techinical content :cool3:
 

House of Laughter

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Dave,

Sorry I miffed you - this is a great thread, BTW, and, indirectly it IS a debate about DSB or BB, BUT, the difference is, and we all recognize is respect for each others approach.

So, that being said - Herman, my first two tanks (30 and 90g) I ran all three systems (Jalabert - DSB, Plenum, and Berlin - Skimmer). In the 90, I went a little extreme and NEVER had any problems with it. Matter of fact, I am attaching some pics of the tank when it first started. You can see how deep the sand bed actually is and here is the specs - 2" plenum just about covered the entire tank. 2" of course aragonite and 5" of southdown (about 250 lbs fresh and about 45 lbs seeded from my 30g).

For those of you who remember the 90 in it's day, that tank was OUT OF CONTROL teeming with life, growth, health etc.

I also had sand in the sump in the chamber between both baffle sets, there was live rock as well as runnle and a HUGE star fish.

Shaun and I discussed the option of going external with DSB - again, only thing I noticed, was that it took some time for my tank to start top show color and growth - that is just now happening - and Ill say again, I just noted that my sand bed in the fuge is teeming with pods, is bubbling and starting to get the colors in the bed.

House
 
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spykes

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House of Laughter said:
Dave,

Sorry I miffed you - this is a great thread, BTW, and, indirectly it IS a debate about DSB or BB, BUT, the difference is, and we all recognize is respect for each others approach.

So, that being said - Herman, my first two tanks (30 and 90g) I ran all three systems (Jalabert - DSB, Plenum, and Berlin - Skimmer). In the 90, I went a little extreme and NEVER had any problems with it. Matter of fact, I am attaching some pics of the tank when it first started. You can see how deep the sand bed actually is and here is the specs - 2" plenum just about covered the entire tank. 2" of course aragonite and 5" of southdown (about 250 lbs fresh and about 45 lbs seeded from my 30g).

For those of you who remember the 90 in it's day, that tank was OUT OF CONTROL teeming with life, growth, health etc.

I also had sand in the sump in the chamber between both baffle sets, there was live rock as well as runnle and a HUGE star fish.

Shaun and I discussed the option of going external with DSB - again, only thing I noticed, was that it took some time for my tank to start top show color and growth - that is just now happening - and Ill say again, I just noted that my sand bed in the fuge is teeming with pods, is bubbling and starting to get the colors in the bed.

House


herm i wasnt smiffed hehhe, i think your right in your own ways, like my ways are just as right as yours. yeah your tank was awsome, but sandbed IMO do the things i think they do, as long as they bother me like so, i'd do external or none hehe.
 

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I would not say that this is a thread debating dsb vs bb but rather exploring more in depth certain negative aspects of the two. Whereas b4 I was totally convinced of BB, I am having second thoughts about giving DSB a chance as a remote controllable setup.

This thread basically opened a door basically and I was forced to explore and research which is what I hope to get more of from this board. Today, I researched, not the usual BS, but I went into various chemistry forums trying to understand better the various reactions that take place in my tank.

I really hope that more often in the future people like spykes will post more thought provoking statements/questions like today.
 

House of Laughter

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Herman, yes, splitting hairs though :) Davem scientifically, is there a way to buffer the HS2? what is it's natural enemy? O?

AND THE TANK IN IT'S DAY . . . .
 
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Kedd

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I love this thread!

There is alot to think about, and learn in this one.

I'm not going to fix it if it ain't broke(sandbead), but I may fix it before it does.
Mine is still very young, so if I decide to go BB I will do it in the summer when I can have the entire house open for the transfer.

But It may never happen,I do like my sand and all the critters.

Someone make up my mind for me! LOL:scratchch


Kedd
 

jackson6745

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Kedd said:
I love this thread!

There is alot to think about, and learn in this one.

I'm not going to fix it if it ain't broke(sandbead), but I may fix it before it does.
Mine is still very young, so if I decide to go BB I will do it in the summer when I can have the entire house open for the transfer.

But It may never happen,I do like my sand and all the critters.

Someone make up my mind for me! LOL:scratchch


Kedd

Kedd don't change a thing!
 

NYPDFrogman

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drunktank said:
Interesting .....

How does this effect a sand bed that isnt deep at all?

now u guys have me reconsidering sandbed for my 150.... grr lol
how deep??
1-2 " shouldnt pose a problem it's easily stired by water movement. I have 1-2" sand in my 180 in front for appearence. It's not under any rock or where the water can become stagnant. when I do my water cahnge I make it a point to use the siphon to clear any discolored or compacted sand. JMHO
 

Kedd

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Drunktank,

You asked the question for me.


Thanks Rich!
Once summer gets here I will be too busy anyway catching fish!lol(I hope)

Kedd
 
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drunktank

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NYPDFrogman said:
how deep??
1-2 " shouldnt pose a problem it's easily stired by water movement. I have 1-2" sand in my 180 in front for appearence. It's not under any rock or where the water can become stagnant. when I do my water cahnge I make it a point to use the siphon to clear any discolored or compacted sand. JMHO

i normally only use a 1-2'' sand bed for show. So if thats not gonna cause a build up i'll keep it. :)


also- where can u purcahse bb?
 

herman

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drunktank said:
i normally only use a 1-2'' sand bed for show. So if thats not gonna cause a build up i'll keep it. :)


also- where can u purcahse bb?

Drunktank. BB stands for bare bottom meaning that there is nothing on the bottom. We usually utilize a cutting board to protect the glass on the bottom of the tank.

This thread neither encourages or discourages BB or DSB. It just so happens that both methods have their advantages and disadvantages and discusses utilizing the advantages of both while keeping the disadvatages at bay.
 

ShaunW

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In a paper that studied the amount of nitrate and phosphate in core samples, at 1 inch there is no detectable nitrate phosphate accumulation! (I have the paper on my work computer, so tomorrow I will post the findings, unless I can find it here on MR). However, as you go deeper nitrate and phosphate are present in increasing amounts.

So if you going to have a SSB I would not go beyond an 1 inch deep, so that no anaerobic bacteria can be present.
 
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