herman

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The comment on the wattage reduction has several factors and the use of ozone being one of the helping factors as well as using more efficient reflectors as well as the corals position and preferance within the tank.

What I was saying with that is that I combined several factors including the one we are talking about to achive a reduction of 150w per bulb without sacrificing growth, in fact achieving better growth than b4. Not all factors just affected the clarity of the watter but also the quality.
 

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NYPDFrogman said:
I've used Ozone before in both a skimmmer and a reactor. as I have stated before I prefer the reactor over the skimmer.
I let the skimmer do it's job and I let the reactor do it's job.

do you have a controller that will shut off the ozone reactor if it reaches a high set point? is there a way to have a redundant safety feature as backup?
 

herman

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I would always adise a controller in conjunction with carbon as a backup.

BTW does anyone have any comment/info on the skiimers ability to pick up oxididized organics better? I was just curious.
 

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hermangareis said:
I would always adise a controller in conjunction with carbon as a backup.

BTW does anyone have any comment/info on the skiimers ability to pick up oxididized organics better? I was just curious.

no I meant a backup for the controller.
I like having redundant, redundancies to at least two levels. lol.
 

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jhale said:
no I meant a backup for the controller.
I like having redundant, redundancies to at least two levels. lol.

Carbon will take care of all residual o3. The BX 3 has the compartment plus it will pass through more carbon on its way to the return

The ideal way is ofcouse a setup like frank is building now. Anything that exits passes though the carbon reactor making it impossible for O3 to leech out. O3 reacts readily and very easily with carbon
 

jhale

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taking Randys article into account I'm not sure what difference it would have.

the fact a high ORP does not translate to good water quality would not suggest that organics that have been oxidized would be any easier to skim out. they may be lighter in weight, so that might make the skimmer more efficient in removing them.
it sounds like a hard thing to quantify.
but like Frank said if the tank looks healthy then something is going well.
 

Deanos

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NYPDFrogman said:
right now I have a ORP controller on my 180 this morning it read 378mv with out the lights
my ph was 7.98 (pinpoint)
my water is crystal clear
I run a ASM G4 with sedra9000
I have a large reverse flow carbon reactor
a 12 gal fuge with a 5"DSB
I have a large fish population, my regal angel,asfur angel, stripped bristol tooth, naso tang and mystery wrasse, clown tang and purple tang are all in the 4-5" range and are poop machines! the rest 2 clowns, flame and sixline are 3"+
as I'm typing PH is 8.02 and ORP is 358MV
my skimmate is dark and thick (I skim dry) and produces it steadily.
my interpitation of ORP was that the higher the ORP the more ability the water has to deal or combat dissolved organics.

Frank, break it down for me. All other things equal, if you remove the ozone from your tank, water clarity drops how much, on a scale of 10 to 1? Coral coloration? Skimmate production?
 

NYPDFrogman

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Deanos said:
Frank, break it down for me. All other things equal, if you remove the ozone from your tank, water clarity drops how much, on a scale of 10 to 1? Coral coloration? Skimmate production?
ozone is not step yet
these are parameters before I introduce Ozone

jhale said:
do you have a controller that will shut off the ozone reactor if it reaches a high set point? is there a way to have a redundant safety feature as backup?
the controller I have ( Millwaukee) will shut down the ozone at a set point.
I havent figured a safety incase the controller fails. all the water from the reactor will flow through a pressurized reverse flow reactor before returning to the sump/tank
 

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herman

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Quoted from artice regarding skimmer efficiency and ozone use

For years, many people have suggested that ozone improves skimming efficiency. But does it really? Whether one uses a skimmer or not, the introduction of ozone into water that contains organics will have a big impact on those organic molecules. Nearly any organic molecule can be oxidized in the presence of ozone. One common effect of oxidation is the elimination of the types of molecules that lead to the adsorption of visible light. Compounds containing conjugated double bonds are one of the most common natural chromophores. These molecules are, however, very susceptible to oxidation to uncolored species.
It is thus highly probable than any elimination of yellow coloration in a marine tank on using ozone is due to the simple conversion of the organics from a light absorbing form, to a nonabsorbing form. The organics are not removed by a skimmer, and are not completely destroyed. They are just in a different form. Whether that is desirable or undesirable will depend entirely on the specific organic compounds in question.

The follow-up question is whether these oxidized compounds are more susceptible to being removed by a skimmer than before oxidation. At present, I am not aware of any study which shows that they are, or even of any physical reason why the would be. In general, oxidation makes organic molecules more hydrophilic. In some cases, it also breaks molecules into smaller pieces. Neither of these actions should lead to greater skimming. Hydrophobic molecules (in the presence of amphipathic molecules) are easily skimmed. Converting them to amphipathic molecules through introduction of a hydrophilic group will mean that they are still skimmed, but not that they are easier to skim. Oxidizing amphipathic molecules is also unlikely to increase skimming, and if they are oxidized so much that they become completely hydrophilic, then they will not be skimmed at all. I cannot think of a single molecule which becomes easier to skim by oxidation. On balance, there does not appear to be any evidence that the use of ozone increases skimming efficiency per se. That is not to say that ozone has no effect. The use of ozone can certainly lead to fewer yellowing compounds in the water, and might make many organics more susceptible to biodegradation. It can also sterilize water if used in sufficient concentrations. Are these things desirable? That's up to each aquarist to decide.
 

NYPDFrogman

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that supports my reasons why I chose to use Ozone in a reactor as opposed to a protien skimmer. both skimmer and reactor will be fed from a common sump from a compartment that recieves 1/2 the tank water ( my sump design is such that one overflow box drains into the skimmer compartment and the other overflow drains into my fuge ( both are filter with a 25 micron sock).) they both drain into a common sump which is returned to the tank

I'm sure there is no perfect way to utilize or dispense Ozone nor is there a skimmer that will remove 100% of the dissolved organics in the water
 

Deanos

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solbby said:
Who has yellow water anyway? Jonathan your water is far from yellow!

My water has never been yellow.

My point exactly. The difference in my water clarity/quality has improved tremendously since upgrading my skimmer from a Remora w/MJ1200 to an ASM G3. Is this what can be expected with the addition of ozone?
 

herman

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Deanos said:
My point exactly. The difference in my water clarity/quality has improved tremendously since upgrading my skimmer from a Remora w/MJ1200 to an ASM G3. Is this what can be expected with the addition of ozone?

That is exactly what I said but decided to give this ozone thing a try. My water was clear with a large skimmer. After running the ozone for a couple hours my immediate reaction was shock because I thought the water drained from my tank, but then a fish cruised along. I was convinced.

But my decision to go with ozone was more for the disinfecting qualities.
 

jhale

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my water sometimes has a yellow quality to it, granted carbon will take it out, but I don't always want to use carbon 24/7.

I don't think any of us want to to sterilize the water completely.

But for myself I view ozone as a tool to use vs. the waste fish produce.
they are always going to poop, and i like to feed them on the heavy side.
by adding ozone to the tank I'm giving myself more of a buffer against
the constant source of poop.

maybe you don't run ozone 24/7. but if frank reports all his coral looks better with O3, then I would think the O3 is not removing everything that is beneficial to coral from the water column.
 

NYPDFrogman

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I think there is more to ORP and water clarity than touched upon in that article.
I've been behind the scenes at the NY aquarium, sea world and they use Ozone as a form of filtration thier tanks.

my water is crystal clear!!! thats not why I'm adding Ozone. I love the fact that I have more than a few fish in my reef tank.

when I had my 65 gal reef running most of my acros were on the brown side.
since being moved to the 180 ( same light XM 10K) they have started to exhibit different colors, the milipora I had was brown and is now pink purple,
the acro was tan and is now baby blue,

so far difference is a bigger skimmer and the constant use of carbon.
I'm anticipating once Ozone is used the water to have less nutrients
and a steady higher ORP I'm not looking to sterlize my water column

hey I maybe heading up the street the wrong way...
I've been keeping a log taking pics lets see where this goes
 

Deanos

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jhale said:
but if frank reports all his coral looks better with O3, then I would think the O3 is not removing everything that is beneficial to coral from the water column.

Ok...I'll leave water clarity issue alone. But let me play Devil's advocate :sgrin:. I've read that many wild-caught acros are brown before acclimation to home aquaria. Who's to say that brown isn't the natural color for these corals. A coral "brightening up", may actually be detrimental to its longterm health; whether it's a result of add'l zooxanthellae, less nutrient-rich water, etc. Sure a pink acro looks better to us than a brown one, but is it healthier than that brown acro still in the ocean? :scratchch

Edit: I now see Frank has posted the exact results I mention here. :cool3:
 

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