Nitrates in an SPS Tank

ShaunW

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kimoyo said:
I really don't buy into that zeolith thing. Just sounds unnecesary and like a gimmick to me. I haven't seen a good answer to why its really important.
From my understanding of zeovit it provides the environment for the bacteria to thrive in in the zeovit reactor and on the zeolit stones.
 

kimoyo

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solbby said:
From my understanding of zeovit it provides the environment for the bacteria to thrive in in the zeovit reactor and on the zeolit stones.
Yeah, yeah, I'm all about the big skimmer now :). They say it binds ammonia and then the bacteria colonize to convert it. Then you shake it up to release mulm containing the bacteria. Some of this mulm goes to the skimmer and some to the corals and tank. But I'd rather just skip that whole part and let the bacteria do their work on the live rock or substrate.
 

ShaunW

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kimoyo said:
And if you will explain that to us tomorrow it would be great :). I'll write up something to get us started.
Well for example if you inoculate Pseudomonas stuzerii into your tank it is a facultative anaerobic bacteria that can breakdown nitrate under microaerophilic conditions to nitrogen gas. Therefore just adding the bacteria without providing the microaerophilic environment will not lead to nitrate conversion.

I would still like to keep this thread on focus about nitrate because we really haven't finished where we left off (unfortunately I have been really busy with work lately and haven't been about to continue the discussion to date, :( ).
 

kimoyo

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solbby said:
Well for example if you inoculate Pseudomonas stuzerii into your tank it is a facultative anaerobic bacteria that can breakdown nitrate under microaerophilic conditions to nitrogen gas. Therefore just adding the bacteria without providing the microaerophilic environment will not lead to nitrate conversion.

I would still like to keep this thread on focus about nitrate because we really haven't finished where we left off (unfortunately I have been really busy with work lately and haven't been about to continue the discussion to date, :( ).

Since I was planning on handling most of my nitrate control indirectly thru my oversized skimmer I am more worried about the bacteria with planktonic stages for skimming and that will help feed my corals (heterotrophic I assume).
 

sci33

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Sprung was speaking about corals in general not clams at all.. that was just a reference from my knowledge. Although he said nitrates which I do remember as well as phosphates, I think he was just referring to a nitrogen and phosphate source in general in smaller amounts nothing to be problematic.
 

jackson6745

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sci33 said:
Sprung was speaking about corals in general not clams at all.. that was just a reference from my knowledge. Although he said nitrates which I do remember as well as phosphates, I think he was just referring to a nitrogen and phosphate source in general in smaller amounts nothing to be problematic.


Yes, but this is a useless statment(Sprung) since we don't have a choice if we want No3 and Po4 or not. Every reef will have trace amounts of nitrate and phosphate even if your testkits say "0"

It's useless knowledge.
 

jhale

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here's some more results to ponder.

this a.m my No3 levels were the highest ever, 20-30ppm.

in contrast the Po4 is undetectable.

People have been commenting on the SPS growth in my tank, it seems to be above average.

My skimmer is a joke and due to my work schedule I have not done a water change in a few months, not something I am recommending. that's how the No3 got so high. Even with the high No3 my growth did not seem to slow down.
 

kimoyo

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sci33 said:
Sprung was speaking about corals in general not clams at all.. that was just a reference from my knowledge. Although he said nitrates which I do remember as well as phosphates, I think he was just referring to a nitrogen and phosphate source in general in smaller amounts nothing to be problematic.

Corals need nitrogen, but can they get it from nitrate is the question? From whats been researched and written they don't.
 

alrha

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kimoyo said:
Corals need nitrogen, but can they get it from nitrate is the question? From whats been researched and written they don't.
can the bacteria growing in their slime extract the nitrogen? almost like denitrification IN/ON the coral? the Oxygen can then probably be used by the symbiotic algae.
 

alrha

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kimoyo said:
I'm worried about starving the coral by blasting it with too much light.
how does that stave the coral? i know this is for a different discussion, but are we really providing much higher intensities than those found in nature?
 

kimoyo

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alrha said:
can the bacteria growing in their slime extract the nitrogen? almost like denitrification IN/ON the coral? the Oxygen can then probably be used by the symbiotic algae.

For ammonium, yes I believe so and that would be an aerobic process. Denitrification is of course an anaerobic process. But for nitrate I haven't seen any research that says the bacteria can or do. Maybe someone else has.
 

kimoyo

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alrha said:
how does that stave the coral? i know this is for a different discussion, but are we really providing much higher intensities than those found in nature?

I could give you want I think but I don't have any research/papers to back it up fully. Just bits and pieces of what I've read. There is some bleaching papers I'm trying to get but haven't yet. I was going to start a lighting thread but decided not to because I don't want/have time to debate.

I'm not going to argue this with anyone (especially if you don't understand) and I'm not trying to sidetrack this thread by having a discussion here, I'm just trying to answer Alrha questions. Nor do I have an understanding of these things like Solbby would.

The coral colors you see are a defensive measure. The corals fluoresce/reflect light that is harmful or unused by the zoox. The coral only needs a certain amount of photosynthesis and will limit the light the zoox receive or expel them when getting to much. The zoox enable the coral to make amino acids by providing it with a photosynthate. After the zoox are limited the coral still needs to get amino acids from somewhere or they "starve". To prevent this I'll dose AA's directly, unlike the indirect way of feeding fish. Basically its changing the way they eat to improve colors. Don't know if I will be successful but I would like to try.
 
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alrha

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kimoyo said:
A) The coral colors you see are a defensive measure. The corals fluoresce/reflect light that is harmful or unused by the zoox. The coral only needs a certain amount of photosynthesis and will limit the light the zoox receive or expel them when getting to much.

B) The zoox enable the coral to make amino acids by providing it with a photosynthate. After the zoox are limited the coral still needs to get amino acids from somewhere or they "starve". To prevent this I'll dose AA's directly, unlike the indirect way of feeding fish. Basically its changing the way they eat to improve colors. Don't know if I will be successful but I would like to try.
again, not to sidetrack the thread, but...
A) the colors, you theorize, is in essence a sun-block or UV protection.
B) zoox provide the coral with amino acids
A) the corals expel zoox when getting enough

so why is there a need to supplement amino acids if (B) the zoox are providing it and (A) the zoox are only limited once they are producing excess?
and why would supplementing amino acids (B) improve color, if color (A) is only a response/defense against lighting?

i tried to break it up into A and B for clarification (although i am sure it is still very confusing).

For the record, i do not claim to know what i'm talking about, just asking questions based on what you explained.
 
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