SPS Growth and Bulb Choice
- Thread starter meschaefer
- Start date
Sure, but miracle can happen when you have good drugs :lol2:
That's right, your back in the land of hippies and slackers.
now...
:backtotop
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What bulbs and ballast combo are you using and how is your growth?
Yes I do! My utility bill for May was $110, thats right $110 for gas and electric.. In a 3,500sqft house :groupflip
My current lighting system is ...... NIL
Rethinking about setting up power sucking reef tanks.
Just take that as a challenge to set up the most efficient system you can. Although I haven't hooked up my new chiller yet, my 220 only uses about 10% more electricity than my 65 gallon did.
- Location
- poughquag, ny
people will have varied opinions, but i get as good of growth out of t5's then i did with mh, i currently have 4 36" t5 od on a ice cap 660 and 36"vho's have great color even my pm and great growth, i think adding in the rest of the factor's matter's more then the lighting
- Location
- Westchester, NY
That is exactly what I am trying to get at, and I want to avoid "opinions" and focus on the data. The experiment run in the article had six acros and five montis all plumbed together. The only thing different was the type of lighting. Any difference in growth should be due to lighting as all other factors where constant. There appears to be faster growth under the 20K than under the 10K or the T5 array.
I understand that water quality, flow are all big important factors, but I have purposefully stayed away from 14k and 20K bulbs based upon a very large difference in PAR readings when compared to 10K. I was under the impression, so it would seem are others, that overall PAR was/is a very big factor in quantifying your light source.
Now maybe overall PAR is not what is important vis a vis lighting, perhaps the PAR found in the 400-500 nanometer range is more important than the PAR derived from other wave lenghts.
I want to avoid discussions of water quality, flow etc. etc. and just focus on the lighting issue.
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Good thread.
I have used almost every lamp out there, some of the best IMO, Radium 400 watt 20k great growth, coral health and color was outstanding, all vho t-12 with icecap ballast 50/50 and acteinic great sps growth and color. Right now im using reeflux 10k not impressed some corals changed color, AC very good lamps but to much $$$, so im still hunting for the perfect lamp maybe ushio 14k. IMO lighting is about 20% of the solution to sps color, water is the rest....
s
I have used almost every lamp out there, some of the best IMO, Radium 400 watt 20k great growth, coral health and color was outstanding, all vho t-12 with icecap ballast 50/50 and acteinic great sps growth and color. Right now im using reeflux 10k not impressed some corals changed color, AC very good lamps but to much $$$, so im still hunting for the perfect lamp maybe ushio 14k. IMO lighting is about 20% of the solution to sps color, water is the rest....
s
- Location
- Ossining, NY
Matt,
Awesome thread - unfortunately, I don't think ANY controlled test is going to be able replicate every aspect that contributes to SPS growth - since flow, par, color, water conditions MUST remain consistent within all subjects, it is near impossible to replicate identically to yield empirical results.
Borneman tried this with the salt study where he replicated small systems in 10g tanks and you now how much attention that thread is getting due to lack of proper controls.
Since I have tried many bulb combinations on our exactly alike lighting systems, I'll offer the following (trough only):
Coralife 20k DE - horrible coloration and horrible growth rate.
Phoenix 14k de - good color and good growth
Iwasaki 14k SE - horrible color and unbelievable growth. (iceCap Electronic Ballast)
Examples of the outcome - my tyree sunset (the one we donated for the swap) - has produced 3 1" round frags on discs in 7 months - this came from a frag that was 1/8th inch square - to me thats allot knowing how typically the tyree version of this grows sssslooooooooooooooooooooooow!
on the faster side - I have grown out 8 green poccilipora colonies in under a year that are the size of baseballs. Yes, I said colonies, and it's also spawned in my tank and left babies on the walls of my trough as well as on locline in my display and small places on rock n the display. Not sure how they got from the trough to the display successfully, but they did.
The bulb configuration I currently have is 6 14k's - the first of the 3 has the Iwasaki 14k SE which starts the growth cycle in the trough - THAT bulb grows corals like no other bulb I have used - on the IceCap ballast, it is not even close to blue due to being overdriven by the icecap ballast, but is a PAR monster and craps out the color.
As corals progress over to the Phoenix, they turn bluer, greener and redder than under the iwasaki - this supports Randy's note about color helping in the pigmentation - I conject that there is some correlation between pigmentation coloration and the corals ability to assimilate Ca and Carbonate (healthily colored tissue). once they get to the second Phoenix 14k de, they are mostly fully colored and growing nicely - I leave then for trade and sale. At the moment, my hawkins echinata is growing faster than before, AND is turning the blue that is often desired - before they were more teal/green (I suppose this has more to do with my phosphates than anything else).
One thing I would like to know is why is it important to have faster growth for you? if your display is static - meaning it's not going anywhere - the corals WILL eventually grow out and fill that tank - I bet if that takes a year, you're going to wish it didn't grow out as fast :-0 - if it grows out faster, you're going getting rid of allot of stuff pretty quickly.
hope this helps.
House
Awesome thread - unfortunately, I don't think ANY controlled test is going to be able replicate every aspect that contributes to SPS growth - since flow, par, color, water conditions MUST remain consistent within all subjects, it is near impossible to replicate identically to yield empirical results.
Borneman tried this with the salt study where he replicated small systems in 10g tanks and you now how much attention that thread is getting due to lack of proper controls.
Since I have tried many bulb combinations on our exactly alike lighting systems, I'll offer the following (trough only):
Coralife 20k DE - horrible coloration and horrible growth rate.
Phoenix 14k de - good color and good growth
Iwasaki 14k SE - horrible color and unbelievable growth. (iceCap Electronic Ballast)
Examples of the outcome - my tyree sunset (the one we donated for the swap) - has produced 3 1" round frags on discs in 7 months - this came from a frag that was 1/8th inch square - to me thats allot knowing how typically the tyree version of this grows sssslooooooooooooooooooooooow!
on the faster side - I have grown out 8 green poccilipora colonies in under a year that are the size of baseballs. Yes, I said colonies, and it's also spawned in my tank and left babies on the walls of my trough as well as on locline in my display and small places on rock n the display. Not sure how they got from the trough to the display successfully, but they did.
The bulb configuration I currently have is 6 14k's - the first of the 3 has the Iwasaki 14k SE which starts the growth cycle in the trough - THAT bulb grows corals like no other bulb I have used - on the IceCap ballast, it is not even close to blue due to being overdriven by the icecap ballast, but is a PAR monster and craps out the color.
As corals progress over to the Phoenix, they turn bluer, greener and redder than under the iwasaki - this supports Randy's note about color helping in the pigmentation - I conject that there is some correlation between pigmentation coloration and the corals ability to assimilate Ca and Carbonate (healthily colored tissue). once they get to the second Phoenix 14k de, they are mostly fully colored and growing nicely - I leave then for trade and sale. At the moment, my hawkins echinata is growing faster than before, AND is turning the blue that is often desired - before they were more teal/green (I suppose this has more to do with my phosphates than anything else).
One thing I would like to know is why is it important to have faster growth for you? if your display is static - meaning it's not going anywhere - the corals WILL eventually grow out and fill that tank - I bet if that takes a year, you're going to wish it didn't grow out as fast :-0 - if it grows out faster, you're going getting rid of allot of stuff pretty quickly.
hope this helps.
House
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
IWASAKI SE 15K( I think this what they market it as) is 175W and a total PAR beast.
Iwasaki 14K DE is 250W. and bit disappointing IMO given its 175W. predecessor.
Iwasaki 14K DE is 250W. and bit disappointing IMO given its 175W. predecessor.
House,
When you move corals from one lamp to the next in your grow out system do you notice an immediate shift in color, or is it more gradual, or perhaps a combination of both.
I notice in the article, that they generally observed an immediate "improvement" in color by just moving the coral to a 20K lamp despite the conditions it was grown in.
Perhaps there is an immediate perceived, (or due to florescence) change in color, but that there would be a more dramatic change over a longer period of time.
.
What is interesting to me, is that some of the information found in the article, referencing two separate studies came back with information that was counter intuitive to me and all that I had ever read and considering the responses in this thread, counter to the experience of a number of people who "commercially" grow frags out. i.e. That they achieved greater growth under 20K bulbs, in comparison to the same coral grown under 10K bulbs where all else was as consistent as I think we can get.
If that was the case, I/we could have color and growth without the balancing act that I have gone through in the past. I have always tried to due a balancing act, High par bulbs in the 10K range supplemented with actinics so that I achieved growth and decent color.
One of the things that bothers me about the study, is that they don't provide us with the bulb, ballast, and reflector combo for each lamp tested (or did I miss it someplace, I did gloss over the part about color correction in photography). A certain member here :shhh:, has promised to check in on this thread on Monday, something tells me he may be able to provide some of the missing information.
When you move corals from one lamp to the next in your grow out system do you notice an immediate shift in color, or is it more gradual, or perhaps a combination of both.
I notice in the article, that they generally observed an immediate "improvement" in color by just moving the coral to a 20K lamp despite the conditions it was grown in.
Perhaps there is an immediate perceived, (or due to florescence) change in color, but that there would be a more dramatic change over a longer period of time.
.
What is interesting to me, is that some of the information found in the article, referencing two separate studies came back with information that was counter intuitive to me and all that I had ever read and considering the responses in this thread, counter to the experience of a number of people who "commercially" grow frags out. i.e. That they achieved greater growth under 20K bulbs, in comparison to the same coral grown under 10K bulbs where all else was as consistent as I think we can get.
If that was the case, I/we could have color and growth without the balancing act that I have gone through in the past. I have always tried to due a balancing act, High par bulbs in the 10K range supplemented with actinics so that I achieved growth and decent color.
One of the things that bothers me about the study, is that they don't provide us with the bulb, ballast, and reflector combo for each lamp tested (or did I miss it someplace, I did gloss over the part about color correction in photography). A certain member here :shhh:, has promised to check in on this thread on Monday, something tells me he may be able to provide some of the missing information.
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- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
Yes I believe that certain member is on th road somewhere, no doubt providing similar enlightenment to reefers elsewhere. Actually, I think it is the weekend of the Fosters and Smith Coal Swap in Wisconsin.
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
It is interesting that many of the coral farmers use 20K's , but many of the advanced hobbyists don't. Something to do with marketing via the web????
Randy,
What bulb, ballast and reflector combo do you use?
As to the idea that a 20K bulb choice by the coral farmers is driven by marketing, wouldn't they be interested in coral growth first? Followed by coloration prior to "marketing"?
Also many, if not all, of the coral farmers where advanced hobbyists before grabbing a pair of overalls and hoe.
Which sells faster: .75" super blue tort frag or a 3" brown one?
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
I use Ushio 14K DE 250's in either IC or Lumenarc pendants driven by IC ballasts. I don't use actinic supplements or I would probably use a 10K lamp instead. 20Ks are way too monochromatic for my taste especially with fish. I have never used a 20K lamp that I liked---way to blue for me ( and the Phoenix IMO is really a 20K lamp)--- the exception being the Radium and Phoenix, but only when they are overdriven on an HQI ballast and thus not quite 20K anymore.
I'm sure the farmers are interested in growth, but coloration is what sells, not growth rates. I'm sure some do as Jim does and start them under lower K lighting and then color them up, or they blast them with really high wattage 20K lamps to make up for reduced PAR.
I'm sure the farmers are interested in growth, but coloration is what sells, not growth rates. I'm sure some do as Jim does and start them under lower K lighting and then color them up, or they blast them with really high wattage 20K lamps to make up for reduced PAR.
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