Acro Eating Flat worms

[kimoyo]

pual, aren't you gonna cook/cure the rock for a month before you use it anyway?

No, I'm not going to cook live rock from the ocean but I will cure it. If its really taken from the ocean I wouldn't see the need to cook.

But you also can't always tell whats on the live rock. There could be an acro that you just couldn't see that pests are living on. Its not that big of a deal (especially if its not from bali) but I want to be sure anyway.

 

[ShaunW]

Wow you shaun and j just skipped over my post :lol2:.

I'm sorry Paul. But if we are not bantering/discussing nitrate, phosphate, zoox and coral metabolism I am not satisfied. :sgrin: :tongue:

Speaking of which..............did you read the paper I suggested? I have alot of good ones waiting for you.

:backtotop

 

[spykes]

me and rich conducted alot of experiments today, and found some interesting facts. rich will post them LOL

 

[kimoyo]

I'm sorry Paul. But if we are not bantering/discussing nitrate, phosphate, zoox and coral metabolism I am not satisfied. :sgrin: :tongue:

Speaking of which..............did you read the paper I suggested? I have alot of good ones waiting for you.

:backtotop

lol. Okay I got a good excuse, man work has been a killer :lol2:.

 

[ShaunW]

Did it involve flame and gasoline?

I'm looking forward to your observations. Dave can you help me out at the fragswap to ID these guys/kill them.

 

[kimoyo]

me and rich conducted alot of experiments today, and found some interesting facts. rich will post them LOL

Looking forward to hearing it. Would be good to get a great dip procedure down. The interceptor and levimanisole looks promising.

 

[ShaunW]

lol. Okay I got a good excuse, man work has been a killer :lol2:.

I understand. Sorry I am just a little excited by all the papers I have been reading about zoox symbiosis.

 

[kimoyo]

I understand. Sorry I am just a little excited by all the papers I have been reading about zoox symbiosis.

hehe, its an exciting topic . It would be great to hear you and ebby have a conversation, if I could understand it.

 

[spykes]

shaun they are impossible to look at and ID them, you have to use high dosage of FW exit 10x for nearly 1 hrs to find out if it's there. tropic marin procure was used today, and this stuff works but still slow and IDIng with an eye would mean bite marks only, because me and rich stared at frags today for a hr and didnt find anything until dipping.

 

[skatezen]

Wow you shaun and j just skipped over my post :lol2:.

Hey Jeff, thanks for the info.

Most people seem to be getting the tablets but I was thinking the liquid form would be easier to dose. My dip now was going to be interceptor and Levimanisole, thats why I was asking about the interceptor earlier . Be careful of that lugols, I heard it was some potent stuff. I'm actually planning on treating the live rock I will be getting in shortly. I figure the only think I want to come in with the live rock is bacteria and coralline algae.


From what I've read people have seen the eggs take up to 10-15 to hatch.

The powder last longer, that's why I went with it. The dosage is also very different with the liquid I think it is 1.1 ml per gallon.


Why/How are you treating the live rock?

Pulled this of another thread:
"Both drugs (levamisole hcl and milbemycin oxide) are of the drug class avermectin. This means that instead of counteracting each other, it is possible for them to be a stronger combination together. Being in the same drug class, means the means of exporting this drug out of a system is the same. So with both being dosed at the same time, the amount of drug that can be removed by a living organism in a time period is affected.

I have not heard of a single case of an overdose or extended period of milbemycin (interceptor) causing a coral death. However, an overdose or extended period of levamisole has reportedly caused coral death. This indicates levamisole is toxic to corals. In most cases, the toxicity must reach a certain level before the coral will die. The coral takes in the drug, and at the same time is exporting the drug out of it. However, at our recommended dose of 40ppm it is a losing battle. It cannot remove the drug faster than it comes in at that dose (hence the deaths reported). If it was the other way around (the coral can remove the drug faster than it takes it in), then the coral could be in the chemical forever and not die from it.

This means with both being dosed together, and in the same drug class, you need to be extra careful with the amount you dose and the time you dose for."

 

[Pedro]

This is the main reason why i've pretty much stopped trading/buying frags. You just don't know what crap you get. Having to treat the tank for all this is no fun. I got rid of the regular flatworms, then i got the redbugs, hopefully i don't have these since i haven't introduced anything in a while.

Rich and others, good luck with your treatment. Like you Rich, i have contemplated going softie/FO sometimes. The stress is too much, lol.

Hopefully this medicine does the job.

 

[jhale]

Dave mentioned this morning that he and Rich are convinced that everyone on the board has AEFW's. Can you guys elaborate on that claim, that's a strong statement.

I have been looking at my acros closely, not for the flatworms but for the signs that they are there, I see nothing that tells me my acro's are doing poorly. How could a tank contain flatworms and not reach an infestation level quickly? I would think in a two month period you would start to experience at least a couple of colonies dying, or at least not looking good.

Dave what were the first signs that made you suspect flatworms?
I can see nothing that makes me believe I have them in my tank.

 

[kimoyo]

Why/How are you treating the live rock?

Because you never know. There could be an acro in a place you can't see with pest living off them. I like the idea of live rock from the ocean. Clean rock with great coralline coverage. But you really don't know what your getting.

This means with both being dosed together, and in the same drug class, you need to be extra careful with the amount you dose and the time you dose for."

Yeah, I was planning on make two separate dipping buckets. I don't think combining them is a good idea.

 

[herman]

J, I dont think yo have to worry!! Your tank looks fine. If you read previous threads the guys with the heavy infestation were experiencing STN and poor PE. You got none of that.

 

[spykes]

acro flatworms will not show like RBs, they are translucent and when they start you wouldnt know. because the coral will grow and have great polyp extention. it takes around 6 months to see alot of problems. come to my house and you will see my tank is doing awsome, the colors and extention, the growth. You will never know unless you test that's the fact J. I will assume that everyone has them. i dont care if anyone said they dont have that is what they can claim, but in my book everyone will. i just took my nana up that "colored back up from freshwater damage" and dipped it in lugols + FWE and found 4 of these buggers.

 

[herman]

Does any one know the lifecycle of the AEFM? When in egg stage, does it have to hatch within a specific time frame or can it be delayed say for more favorable conditions?

 

[kimoyo]

Dave mentioned this morning that he and Rich are convinced that everyone on the board has AEFW's. Can you guys elaborate on that claim, that's a strong statement.

I have been looking at my acros closely, not for the flatworms but for the signs that they are there, I see nothing that tells me my acro's are doing poorly. How could a tank contain flatworms and not reach an infestation level quickly? I would think in a two month period you would start to experience at least a couple of colonies dying, or at least not looking good.

The whole stn thing could be mainly flat worms and people just don't realize it. When you glue up the areas you could just be killing a worm.

Also, it take times for these things to grow and for you really to see the affect. While they are really small the coral won't show big signs. Also, some of your fish may naturally be keeping the populations low.

I heard two people say they traced this back to bali and their holding tanks.

 

[kimoyo]

Does any one know the lifecycle of the AEFM? When in egg stage, does it have to hatch within a specific time frame or can it be delayed say for more favorable conditions?

Mitch Carl (mjcarl on RC) has done studies on them and publicized that levimanisole works on them. Could be why salifert doesn't say whats in FWE because they might owe him some money.

 

[jackson6745]

WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many of you guys have had a coral STN in the past 6 months? How many of you guys have had a coral lose its color and turn a light brown/tan color in the last 6 months? How many of you guys have bali aquacultured colonies in your tank? How many of you guys have never seen an AEFW in person?

Accept the possibility that you may have AEFW. Everyone has a coral or two that has not been what it used to, colorwise, or tissue loss. You should start by dipping them. Do not trade or sell any corals unless they have been dipped multiple times in Tropic Marine Pro cure(more importantly the buyer dip as well), 15-20x of Flatwrom Exit, or a levimanisole dip.

Unless you have experience with AEFW you will not be able to see them on the coral. These pests have the potential to destroy our acros, and I believe in the near future you will see many other hobbyists coming out with AEFW's once they learn to identify them. Keep reading the all the Flatworm threads here and on reefcentral, and if you capture some AEFW don't be afraid to expiriment different was to kill them....share the knowledge of course.

Good Luck

 

[ShaunW]

Now you guys are just scaring me!