Raskal311

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sdcfish":vp48ek04 said:
Sticking to the topic of Rob getting some brown frown..it's just depressing to hear that a retailer prefers to tranship over buying wholesale. There are so many ethical issues involved, and the pricing is so complex that most of the stores I speak to about costing actually have no idea that it's actually MORE expensive than buying wholesale.

Yeah, I tried it a few times; it does cost about the same to transship when its all said and done. A few items such as cultured sps or clams maybe cheaper but overall it cost about the same so we stopped going in that direction. However we don’t have the additional cost of shipping from the wholesalers since we are local to 104.
 
A

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7-8 years ago I did 6-7 transhipments. I don't think they ended up being any cheaper than ordering from a quality Wholesaler. I also had a problem with excessive fillers being added. It is important to have a good broker and it is important to be someplace that can get the shipment quick once it hits LA. Greensboro NC sucks for receiving air shipments in a timely manner. Packages either have to go through Detroit to freeze or Atlanta to get lost or bumped for US postal service.

The LFS around the corner from my house has been getting very nice coral and fish shipments from Eric. I am impressed with the quality. I bought an Achilles Tang from them 3-4 weeks ago and it is doing great.
 

sdcfish

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I forgot to mention previously that we did just receive some Rhizotrochus typus from Australia. I did call Fish and Wildlife ahead of the shipment arriving to make sure it wasn't going to be a problem, but it was fine and clearly labeled correctly on the cites and invoice. It's not a restricted specie....I would too be cautious buying one that is not labeled from Australia. I agree that there is some smuggling going on behind the scenes....and I am also amazed that people can get away with it or even try!

thanks for the props Chris (snailman).....we are working hard over here!

Dizzy (Mitch)...thanks to you too...that was funny.

We obviously do not sell knowingly to the public. I have had to kick some people out of here....and also have had reported by our customers people who have slipped through the cracks and have been able to buy from us once or twice. We do sell to the police officers in the area that patrol the neighborhood....bomb squad guys (good guys to know), and maybe a few friends that I ask to come in on slow days.....but overall, we do not sell directly to the public....PERIOD! There is always going to be the guys trying to get an account with us and I am the one who screens all the accounts....so Don's Auto Body and Repair is going to have a hard time getting passed me. I have had photos taken of retail facilities and sent to me, and I have also just flat out said sorry.

back to selling feeeesh!

Eric
 

swsaltwater

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Well there are transhippers and there are wholesalers that ship it direct without tanking it IMO.. If you are transhipping then you are buying at the same price as a some wholesalers. It is not easy, and you have to scrape and claw for connections but once you get direct to the scuba diver things get super cheap. If you truely get to the source and can swing the volume things are insanely cheap. I did a shipment direct to a diver in Austrailia and Ultra Acans are about 50-75% cheaper then wholesale landed......Fungia depending on grade even more extreme on the cheap side. Then there is the Golden Ina which is about double what my transhippers charge but she gets nice stuff so it's worth it. The main benefit I see is in quality and rarity. Rare items do not get premium price tags. I paid the same price for a Multi Color Fungia (Orange and Green) as I did for an Orange to a diver. A week later I got one via wholesale for 6 times what I paid direct. I still support wholesalers and mid level shippers but on the ultra high dollar stuff that is hard to get at that level I try to go direct. I will still even buy rare stuff when avail since you cant always afford to bring in 15k in aussie stuff...In these times you gotta do what you gotta do to compete with the online guys, since wholesalers sell the Acans and numerous other items about the same price as online sites there is not way to compete without loosing your butt. Do what you can to level the field. Now in a perfect world there would not be any droppshippers and etailing wholesalers to put those corals online at that price and we can all go back to a tiered supply chain and all make money.
 

clarionreef

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So then I repeat;
To then go direct to the source kinda makes a case for the wholesaler to do the same doesn't it?
I mean, if retailers can buy direct from a wholesalers sources, could not then a wholesaler sell direct to that retailers customers?
How is "turn about" not fair play in this routine?
Or must wholesalers behave while retailers are free to go anywhere and do anything?
Just wondering >

Using the fact that a certain % of some wholesalers sell to some rich guys or to their friends, their car mechanic or their dentists is a small % to be sure.
If there are no rules for the marketplace now....then how can one side expect more noble behavior from the other?

Steve
Cortez Marine
 

dizzy

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Let's not forget the bomb squad guys and the reef clubs et al. I guess the genie is out of the bottle. This is a little like having a wife that only cheats on you once in awhile and not every week.
 

swsaltwater

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To be clear I would gladly go back to buying from wholesalers tomorrow exclusively if I could compete. Problem is you look like a jerk when your acan lord is 499 and the same one is online at 225 when you paid 189 and shipped it from LA.............If the wholesalers stopped that then I would glady pay their price on the acans. JMHO
 

clarionreef

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Re: Coral
by swsaltwater » 28 Aug 2009 02:57

To be clear I would gladly go back to buying from wholesalers tomorrow exclusively if I could compete. Problem is you look like a jerk when your acan lord is 499 and the same one is online at 225 when you paid 189 and shipped it from LA.............If the wholesalers stopped that then I would glady pay their price on the acans. JMHO

I guess Im jealous of the options you have...to play at all levels.
I would be excited to be able to sell fish at hobbyist prices as well. It would be so easy to make money by buying truly direct...not via tranship...and then sell to the highest bidder. My bluespot jawfish would go from a $30.00, low profit item to a $79.99 -$99.99 one.
The vast list of "lost leaders" would all have profit.
YELLOW TANGS WOULD MAKE SENSE AGAIN.
The Aussie imperator that cost me $65.00 plus 20 bucks frieght could be sold at more then cost.
Direct import of corals would allow more then just a break even markup.
Cleaner shrimp would fly out the door with a 4X mark up from cost...and not just a double.
I could order everything and anything and make it work as the margin would be there.
We would be able to out compete our worst lowball shop and etailer and still make money...
I wouldn't have to respect the chain, behave, stay w/in the rules and look like ...like...a fool.

Imagine if the purely personal impulse was all there was...wow!
 

swsaltwater

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Steve what you are saying is not half bad cause i could compete with that, the problem is not wholesalers trying to sell BS Jaws at 80 bucks, the problem is Whosalers trying to sell them at 35 it that wholeslae em at 30, that hurts the industry overall..............For example If the walks ins that Eric openly admits he allows in from time to time paid 3 times wholesale I would even help em choose stuff out for sdc while I was there if they asked. I really have no issues with fair competetion at that level and if done right it won't effect my buisness and the wholesaler can make more money and thus lower my prices :)
 

swsaltwater

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Another example of what happens..The two customers that moved to Tucson I know of that were SDC shoppers(as stated before) claimed they paid straight wholesale. They scoffed at my prices and said they were far to high and would never pay 20 for a cleaner shrimp or 80 for a Rose Bulb. They said "I paid 49 for roses, and 8 for shrimp in LA"!!!! That is now a customer ruined for ever doing business at the retail level. Had SDC had a retail price list for when employees did sneak friends and frag swap buddies in to shop on the wholesale list this would not happen. No one understands that any retail industry has a large markup to cover overhead, they see the markup and think I am hiding the lamborghini out back.
 

dizzy

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I agree with swsaltwater. It is really crappy for a wholesaler to sell direct to the hobbyist for the same price they sell to retailers.............. especially given the fact retailers buy thousands of dollars of livestock and rely on this industry for their livelihood. A pox on the houses of all who do this.
 

sdcfish

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I just want to reiterate that we do not sell to the public. The TWO GUYS that Southwest Saltwater is talking about are either former customers of our customer, or pretended to have a business and turned in a bogus business license with a fish name on it. It's a terrible example to use and I can say that we have had less than a handful of people come through our warehouse and buy posing as a business. Either way, I have made it clear that we will confront people trying to do this and KICK THEM OUT!

I wish you a few of you who don't get it, could try and police all the customers and make sure each person who walks in is a viable business. We actually catch almost all of them....so I think we do a great job weeding out the posers.

Shame on those of you who think that serving our civil servants is wrong. That's beyond what I think is playing fair and I for one appreciate what they do for us and it's a small way to show our appreciation. I do not want to take advantage of these few little orders and try to make extra "RETAIL" pricing. That would make me feel guilty for doing that and defeat the purpose of what I am giving back to them in the first place.

Any Retailer hearing about us or any other wholesaler selling to the public, they should try to get the person's name, and let me or the wholesaler know so we can put an end to it. Without the information, we might have no way to track it down and take action. If they don't take action, then I feel you could hold a judgment against them....if you do nothing, then you can't blame them.

With all the exposure in our warehouse, and so many retailers walking around all the time, it would just be too obvious that we were crossing the line. We are not, in my opinion anyway.....sorry if some of you feel differently. My heart is on the table....jump on it if you want :)
 

swsaltwater

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I would think it is your employees Eric, hard to police that but I think maybe theft was involved to as they said cash and carry most of the time and CC a few times. I know that happens alot...... Whether or not you police it, it is hard to see why so many people nationwide slip threw the cracks at SDC but QM rarely has it happen. I think maybe your sales reps have more latitude then theirs on customer accounts, I would love to see you get a lot more strict on verifications. A lot of times calling existing verified B&Ms in an area will turn results. They always know if a legit store just opened. Paul of AZ sea bottom who did eventually open a store claimed to me that in spite of my warning to SDC his sales rep still sold rock to him anyway. Eventually he got a B&M and we all know how that ended......Not that he was very credible but I know employees at other LFS in phoenix that saw the boxes.........

As far as cops, sure sell to them thats just good business but does it have to be at wholesale? Maybe 35% under retail would work......Even free would be better so they don't see the wholesale prices and take that info back to their reef buddies.

I have nothing againsts SDC and will order there in the future as needed but I am going to call them as I see them and hear/verify info. I don't like the feeling that saying whats going on is bad, people can verify and form their own opinions but I personally saw Vince from Oracle walk out of SDC before he ever owned a store........
 

Raskal311

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swsaltwater":11n2nfe7 said:
I would think it is your employees Eric, hard to police that but I think maybe theft was involved to as they said cash and carry most of the time and CC a few times. I know that happens alot...... Whether or not you police it, it is hard to see why so many people nationwide slip threw the cracks at SDC but QM rarely has it happen. I think maybe your sales reps have more latitude then theirs on customer accounts, I would love to see you get a lot more strict on verifications. A lot of times calling existing verified B&Ms in an area will turn results. They always know if a legit store just opened. Paul of AZ sea bottom who did eventually open a store claimed to me that in spite of my warning to SDC his sales rep still sold rock to him anyway. Eventually he got a B&M and we all know how that ended......Not that he was very credible but I know employees at other LFS in phoenix that saw the boxes.........

As far as cops, sure sell to them thats just good business but does it have to be at wholesale? Maybe 35% under retail would work......Even free would be better so they don't see the wholesale prices and take that info back to their reef buddies.

I have nothing againsts SDC and will order there in the future as needed but I am going to call them as I see them and hear/verify info. I don't like the feeling that saying whats going on is bad, people can verify and form their own opinions but I personally saw Vince from Oracle walk out of SDC before he ever owned a store........

Just be glad you’re not local enough to have hobbyist coming in showing off a new purchase from 104. It’s getting to the point where I’m actually telling them to keep an eye out for certain items for me.
 

JennM

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OMG I think the sky is falling. I find myself agreeing with Eric, not just once... but twice in this thread!

Eric wrote:
Sticking to the topic of Rob getting some brown frown..it's just depressing to hear that a retailer prefers to tranship over buying wholesale. There are so many ethical issues involved, and the pricing is so complex that most of the stores I speak to about costing actually have no idea that it's actually MORE expensive than buying wholesale. Costing out a shipment that has so many hidden charges, it's not very easy to calculate real costs. Also, previous industry surveys have shown excessive doa's and daa's on transhipped product versus wholesale product. It's really a black cloud hanging over the industry that needs to be addressed. Fortunately we have seen a huge trend away from Transhipping and more focus back on the wholesaler. I think the slowdown might have something to do with it, and tranship is really more beneficial when done in big volume. That's the stores best chance to save, but with our efforts to lower pricing on key items, it takes away the need for transhipping and the cost factor goes away.

I agree with this. It may not necessarily apply everywhere, but I've been approached to transship and when I do the real math, between the air freight from wherever to LAX, then on to ATL, then the reox, forwarding, brokerage fees, box charges and all the other nickle and dime stuff that gets added in along the way, in the long run it didn't make sense to me, comparing the perceived "savings" to the risks. If everything goes smoothly, it may work out to a few bucks difference, but the toll on the livestock isn't worth it. At least for me in my shop it's not.

Eric also wrote in his last post about wholesalers policing their clientele. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt here on this one, that if he discovers somebody is misrepresenting themselves, he puts a stop to it. I don't know - I've never been to 104th... but it sounds like he's making a good faith effort to keep it above board.

I do know that a lot of people who frequent my store have mentioned that they have gone regularly to "wholesaler X" in my neck of the woods, either with another shopkeeper or on their own, with whatever "business license" they have, and have been able to walk in and walk out with purchases, and that annoys me. But - that's wholesaler X's business, not mine, and I don't buy from them anyway. I did for FW but I don't carry FW anymore, and as such, I don't support them anymore. Most folks are boastful about it as if they've pulled one over on 'the man'... and it's quite easy to do apparently.

I'll even add... that I think a large part of the "PR" problem that brick and mortars have earned, is that it seems that shopkeepers aren't shy to share wholesale price lists and/or invoices and such with their customers, or they leave them lying around where folks can read them. Or worse, transship price lists.

So the customer sees a list where the shop can buy a particular fish for $0.93 per the transship list, but the fish is priced at $35 in the store. Suddenly the customer assumes that the shopkeeper is making $34 "profit" on that specimen. What they don't realize is all the other costs tacked on to that, which I mentioned above. If you add up the real cost of that "93-cent" fish, it's likely more apt to be about $10-12 , which is about what you could buy it from a wholesaler for, after you count the wholesaler's markup (their stock list price), box charge and your air freight and time/gas to go pick it up.

Add to that the cost of retail space, utilities, staff... suddenly the "profit" on that $35 retail fish isn't so much anymore either.

Still, the consumer sees what the store "pays", and feels like somebody is making them hold their ankles. They don't consider all the other factors, and they are just left with the feeling that the LFS is ripping them off, and laughing all the way to the bank.

We here know that's not the case. But unfortunately that's where we are, and IMO that's why a lot of consumers make the choices they do, because somehow with the half-information that they have, they think that how a brick and mortar runs, is somehow unfair.

Those same folks don't seem to grumble at the price of their groceries, appliances, video games, clothing.. but mention LFS pricing and they go off the deep end. Retail is retail... we all have to mark things up accordingly to pay the bills.

Jenn
 

swsaltwater

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That would certainly kill the local stores. But it evens it out a bit since you guys get to shop daily for the good stuff hehe.......I would be very concerned if that happened here.
 

swsaltwater

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Again wholesalers are transhiping and making money(besides loss leader). I hear a lot of stores who claim to tranship and are simply using a wholesaler without tanks........Thats not transhipping, transhipping is not done in 1,000 dollar orders ever. You typically need to get about 15k in stuff plus freight to be on the tranship level and the prices are far below wholesale. And that 15k can fill most stores completely, 5k from Austrailia filled half my store tanks(split 15k with several shops). When you pay wholesale you should be getting some things like SDC and QM provides very well in most cases. I might add this is a valuable service an I still use many wholesalers to get this quality and service. Guarantee that the coral made it and is open and healthy, tanked for a few days to allow it recovery time, and you get what you see or your salesman represents as good. Nothing wrong with this but if you use a transhipper that only gets you a few bucks discount and send it direct to you where you assume the risk that is insanity............I would never tranship unless the price is at minimum half of wholesale landed since you assume the risk of death and it does happen. I also still mark up from wholesale prices and dont wholesale them to the public causeing a decline in value of merchandise should I ever go back to buy wholesale exclusively.
 

Raskal311

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swsaltwater":bg9q01px said:
That would certainly kill the local stores. But it evens it out a bit since you guys get to shop daily for the good stuff hehe.......I would be very concerned if that happened here.
Yeah but the problem is the locals are spoiled so even the good stuff isn’t’ good enough sometimes.
 

dizzy

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Hey Eric,
If you want to do something for the police or bomb squad then donate to their charity or scholarship fund. They might even give you a star to put on your license plate. If you want to support the reef clubs then donate items for their auction.

Jenn........... layoff the kool aid.


Raskal give them hell when you see them doing stuff that hurts your business. I think the wholesalers are lucky that I'm not close enough to have customers coming in saying they were allowed to buy from them. Bring lawyers, guns, and money............. the sh1te has hit the fan.
 

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